Things that may need to be said.
Aug. 28th, 2009 07:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kimana517A friend came to me with some questions and I thought maybe if they were worried about these things maybe some of you are too. Please know that I always, ALWAYS welcome questions and confrontations from my friends. I HATE fakeness and I HATE dishonesty so even if it may knock me down a bit to hear what you have to say, I want to hear it. Now, don't take that as open season on Bethany (I prefer that you come to me in love, not accusation!), but know that you are welcome to ask.
It bothers me that you ask for money for your adoption and then in your next breath you talk about going to another thrift store.
There is a huge difference between spending $30 on several items of clothing and spending $20,000+ on an adoption. I think perhaps you are getting an off-kilter picture of our lives. I write about my thrift store finds because it's something I enjoy and I know a lot of my friends enjoy hearing about the deals I find. I don't write about how we've cut back on a lot of things, because it is not interesting to read about. I do write a lot about how I've saved us $2,000 or more on toiletries, food, and household items just this year via couponing. And that's savings on items we would've bought eventually - not that I just got because they were a good deal. (Although I do get a lot of those things too, but only if they're free.) I'd say that savings of $2,000 makes it OK to spend a little bit at a thrift store sometimes. It's cheaper than going out to eat (which we also do about 2 times per week, but almost exclusively via mystery shops, gift cards, and amazing coupons, which I do not always mention when I say we went out to eat), or going out for drinks, or getting a pedicure (which I have actually never done), or having a data plan on your cell phone, or going to Starbucks a few times a week, or buying one pair of jeans at the mall, or any number of other things.
You could get a part time job, and put all that money towards adoption if this is really important to you.
I have a part-time job. Why do people always forget that I work at my church? I also sell things on Ebay and Craig's List, do occasional odd jobs and, rarely, freelance design jobs, and I make a small amount from selling t-shirts online. I also hope to begin selling my photography online. All that money from all those things goes to the adoption - as did all the money from my modeling gigs.
Don't you think that you and Isaac saving up the money yourself will make getting the baby so much more exciting?
Absolutely not. Getting our friends and family involved is far better because then their hearts will be invested even more, and maybe they will consider giving to other families who are adopting. Read Adopted for Life by Russell Moore for how I feel about that. Also, I don't follow that logic; when a woman gives birth her insurance covers most of it, and that doesn't make her having the baby any less exciting.
Why not save and wait til Isaac is done with seminary?
He won't be done with his Master's until 2013 (that will be the year of our 10th wedding anniversary) and his Doctorate till 2017 (I think). We don't want to just be starting as parents when we're in our mid-30s! Oh, and when he finishes, we will likely be taking a massive pay cut because he will become a Bible teacher instead of a tax preparer, so that will not be an opportune time to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have children.
There are some people who are reading your blog who literally will have to adopt if they ever want to have kids. Knowing that you just don't want to be pregnant is a big reason behind your decision rubs me wrong.
I'm not sure how you got that idea, because that is NOT the reason we are adopting. We are adopting because we don't understand why anyone would bring more kids into the world when there are already millions and millions of kids out there already who will never know the love of a family or hear about Jesus. There are an estimated 6 million orphans in Ethiopia alone. That's about 5 times the population of Jacksonville - just in that ONE country. We know that people think we're nuts for not having a desire for our own biological kids. We're used to that and we accept that we're the weird ones, and we certainly do not look down on people who have biological kids. (Obviously not.) But that does NOT mean we are sinful or selfish or whatever people think we are for not trying to get pregnant.
Edited to add: Isaac said on Facebook, "The Bible talks about a man being blessed whose quiver is full. We are choosing to pick our arrows up of the ground instead of making new ones." Quiverfull Movement connotations aside (because we are SO not part of that), that is a very, very good way of putting it.
Why can't you adopt an American child? It's cheaper, and there are kids here that need loving parents.
There are lots of kids here who need parents - that's true. But it is unlikely that a child in the States will die of starvation or HIV or TB or any other treatable illness that they cannot afford or obtain treatment for in a poorer country. Not to mention that a child here has a much higher chance of hearing the true Gospel than one in a predominantly Catholic (I'm talking Catholic like El Salvador, not American Catholic) or Muslim country. Plus, we've been to orphanages in poor countries and we've been to an orphanage here in the US. HUGE difference in quality of life. Just talk to a kid old enough to remember their orphanage in the Ukraine or Jamaica or wherever and you will know. That said, we hope if people are moved to adopt from the USA that they will! Who cares where you adopt from as long as you adopt! But we have felt called to adopt from poorer countries. If in the future God does not provide for that, then we will likely adopt domestically. If that happens we would like to work with a crisis pregnancy center or some such thing so that we can put our money where our pro-life mouths are.
Question from a friend on Facebook: When you adopt your child will you keep his/her born name or give it an americanized name?
Our kids are gonna be 100% our kids, and that will include the names we've had picked out for ages. Although I think if they have a given name, we will make that a second middle name. That'll make for some long names, but then they'll have the option later on. Also, if we end up adopting older kids (like, age 5 & up) eventually, we'll probably just keep their names because it might be confusing/overwhelming for them to change after having that name for so long.
Let me also add that I am not posting this to have anyone think badly about the friend who initially asked the questions. I'm glad they asked so I could clear things up, especially since a few of you have said you'd wondered some of the same things.
Any other questions?
It bothers me that you ask for money for your adoption and then in your next breath you talk about going to another thrift store.
There is a huge difference between spending $30 on several items of clothing and spending $20,000+ on an adoption. I think perhaps you are getting an off-kilter picture of our lives. I write about my thrift store finds because it's something I enjoy and I know a lot of my friends enjoy hearing about the deals I find. I don't write about how we've cut back on a lot of things, because it is not interesting to read about. I do write a lot about how I've saved us $2,000 or more on toiletries, food, and household items just this year via couponing. And that's savings on items we would've bought eventually - not that I just got because they were a good deal. (Although I do get a lot of those things too, but only if they're free.) I'd say that savings of $2,000 makes it OK to spend a little bit at a thrift store sometimes. It's cheaper than going out to eat (which we also do about 2 times per week, but almost exclusively via mystery shops, gift cards, and amazing coupons, which I do not always mention when I say we went out to eat), or going out for drinks, or getting a pedicure (which I have actually never done), or having a data plan on your cell phone, or going to Starbucks a few times a week, or buying one pair of jeans at the mall, or any number of other things.
You could get a part time job, and put all that money towards adoption if this is really important to you.
I have a part-time job. Why do people always forget that I work at my church? I also sell things on Ebay and Craig's List, do occasional odd jobs and, rarely, freelance design jobs, and I make a small amount from selling t-shirts online. I also hope to begin selling my photography online. All that money from all those things goes to the adoption - as did all the money from my modeling gigs.
Don't you think that you and Isaac saving up the money yourself will make getting the baby so much more exciting?
Absolutely not. Getting our friends and family involved is far better because then their hearts will be invested even more, and maybe they will consider giving to other families who are adopting. Read Adopted for Life by Russell Moore for how I feel about that. Also, I don't follow that logic; when a woman gives birth her insurance covers most of it, and that doesn't make her having the baby any less exciting.
Why not save and wait til Isaac is done with seminary?
He won't be done with his Master's until 2013 (that will be the year of our 10th wedding anniversary) and his Doctorate till 2017 (I think). We don't want to just be starting as parents when we're in our mid-30s! Oh, and when he finishes, we will likely be taking a massive pay cut because he will become a Bible teacher instead of a tax preparer, so that will not be an opportune time to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have children.
There are some people who are reading your blog who literally will have to adopt if they ever want to have kids. Knowing that you just don't want to be pregnant is a big reason behind your decision rubs me wrong.
I'm not sure how you got that idea, because that is NOT the reason we are adopting. We are adopting because we don't understand why anyone would bring more kids into the world when there are already millions and millions of kids out there already who will never know the love of a family or hear about Jesus. There are an estimated 6 million orphans in Ethiopia alone. That's about 5 times the population of Jacksonville - just in that ONE country. We know that people think we're nuts for not having a desire for our own biological kids. We're used to that and we accept that we're the weird ones, and we certainly do not look down on people who have biological kids. (Obviously not.) But that does NOT mean we are sinful or selfish or whatever people think we are for not trying to get pregnant.
Edited to add: Isaac said on Facebook, "The Bible talks about a man being blessed whose quiver is full. We are choosing to pick our arrows up of the ground instead of making new ones." Quiverfull Movement connotations aside (because we are SO not part of that), that is a very, very good way of putting it.
Why can't you adopt an American child? It's cheaper, and there are kids here that need loving parents.
There are lots of kids here who need parents - that's true. But it is unlikely that a child in the States will die of starvation or HIV or TB or any other treatable illness that they cannot afford or obtain treatment for in a poorer country. Not to mention that a child here has a much higher chance of hearing the true Gospel than one in a predominantly Catholic (I'm talking Catholic like El Salvador, not American Catholic) or Muslim country. Plus, we've been to orphanages in poor countries and we've been to an orphanage here in the US. HUGE difference in quality of life. Just talk to a kid old enough to remember their orphanage in the Ukraine or Jamaica or wherever and you will know. That said, we hope if people are moved to adopt from the USA that they will! Who cares where you adopt from as long as you adopt! But we have felt called to adopt from poorer countries. If in the future God does not provide for that, then we will likely adopt domestically. If that happens we would like to work with a crisis pregnancy center or some such thing so that we can put our money where our pro-life mouths are.
Question from a friend on Facebook: When you adopt your child will you keep his/her born name or give it an americanized name?
Our kids are gonna be 100% our kids, and that will include the names we've had picked out for ages. Although I think if they have a given name, we will make that a second middle name. That'll make for some long names, but then they'll have the option later on. Also, if we end up adopting older kids (like, age 5 & up) eventually, we'll probably just keep their names because it might be confusing/overwhelming for them to change after having that name for so long.
Let me also add that I am not posting this to have anyone think badly about the friend who initially asked the questions. I'm glad they asked so I could clear things up, especially since a few of you have said you'd wondered some of the same things.
Any other questions?
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no subject
Date: 2009-08-28 11:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-28 11:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 11:04 am (UTC)Also, I'm just surprised that someone would think the majority of these things, let alone say them to you.
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Date: 2009-08-29 02:39 pm (UTC)Thanks for your support though! =o)
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Date: 2009-08-28 11:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-28 11:46 pm (UTC)Why is Isaac getting a doctorate? Is he going to be a pastor? (I'm not being critical or anything I've just never heard this "dream" so I was wondering what the purpose was...)
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Date: 2009-08-28 11:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-28 11:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 12:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 12:51 am (UTC)#2 I hadn't forgotten. :)
Have you had people actually say #3 to you? I don't even get the logic behind that! Aren't we as Christians supposed to help each other?
I completely understand #4. (I even think you're a bit older than many parents at your age [please don't take that the wrong way!].)
I'm sorry you've had the misconception that goes with #5. :(
And I commend you for #6. I already knew your reasons, and I don't think I'd have ever thought about them if I were to adopt a child.
Also?
Isaac said on Facebook, "The Bible talks about a man being blessed whose quiver is full. We are choosing to pick our arrows up of the ground instead of making new ones."
Quite possibly one of the most touching things I've ever heard (read?). It kind of chokes me up a bit, actually.
I'm so excited for you and Isaac as you begin this process toward becoming parents. I think that having to fight to get a child (or children) will make you appreciate him (or them) even more than some biological parents.
*hugs*
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Date: 2009-08-29 02:25 am (UTC)I had another friend ask me once, "Since when do you work?" I was incredulous. Well, apart from my current job that I've had for 4 1/2 years, I got my first paper route at age 10 and my first "real" job at age 16, and I've only ever stopped working when I was at WOLBI. *rolls eyes*
I had never heard the #3 question until today. I don't really get that one. And honestly, if I had a friend who was pregnant and uninsured and needed assistance, darn right I'd help her out financially! Actually, we give money to a local crisis pregnancy center so I suppose I do that already, except to strangers instead of friends.
LOL. Don't worry. You're older than I am! Hehe. Seriously though, I know. Angela had AJ at age 20! Isaac's mom had his older sister at age 18! My parents had my older brother when my mom was 26 or 27 though so I don't feel far behind.
See, #5 is actually understandable to me. If you were physically incapable of having your own kids, I could understand some resentment or bitterness toward someone who, for all they knew, could have their own kids but chooses not to. I think that's a normal first reaction. Now, where they got the idea that we're adopting because I don't want to get pregnant, well, that I have no idea. Pregnancy never has been a desire of mine, but that's related to the whole wanting to adopt all my kids thing, not to some fear of baby weight or morning sickness or whatever.
I think it's a beautiful way to phrase it too! I think I'm going to put it with my other two quotes about adoption on the adoption blog. Isaac has a way with words, that's for sure.
Thanks for your constant encouragement and excitement for us! Your comments always make me smile. =o)
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Date: 2009-08-29 01:04 am (UTC)Some people that used to go to my church...they adopted a family of kids (like six of them or something), and they changed all their names. The oldest one was like 13 years old or something, and all of a sudden, his entire name was different. They didn't have the choice to keep their name, and they also weren't given a choice in the names they got. Those parents are really, really weird though, and in fact there were questions raised about the way they treated the kids - Pastor Jeff and Lauren counseled them extensively regarding that topic. The name thing was just the tip of the iceberg.
ANYWAY, all that to say...kudos for letting older kids keep their names. LOL
no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 02:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 01:09 am (UTC)It's SO obvious to me that the notion of asking for money for the adoption, and the notion of shopping at thrift stores, are not mutually exclusive, but actually go hand in hand and make total sense. Again, DUH.
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Date: 2009-08-29 03:04 am (UTC)But I'm glad you understand what we're doing. Thanks for your support! =o)
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Date: 2009-08-29 01:10 am (UTC)Anyway, I love what Isaac said about picking the arrows up off the ground. So sweet, touching, and a DANG good argument!
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Date: 2009-08-29 03:09 am (UTC)I know! The boy has a way with words. Aaaaand that's why he's going to be a teacher.
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Date: 2009-08-29 01:35 am (UTC)I hate when people think of adoption as a second-best option or just a back up plan to conceiving biological children. God calls people to parenthood in different ways. One of the things that saddens me about all the embryos we still have is that it will probably mean we won't be able to adopt.
I agree with you 110% on adopting internationally. Kids here may not have the most ideal upbringing if they are raised in foster care or something similar. But they will have healthcare and education. They won't starve to death, die of disease, or be forced into prostitution or slavery.
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Date: 2009-08-29 03:16 am (UTC)Oh, I know. There was a couple on The Amazing Race that were infertile and planned to use their winnings (they did win) for IVF. There is absolutely nothing wrong with IVF (at least not when it's done responsibly like you guys have done), but they wouldn't even consider adoption. They came back on the All-Stars TAR and we found out their marriage was on the rocks because the IVF didn't work and they had therefore decided they would never have kids. It made me so sad. Honestly, even as a last resort, I wish more people would adopt. Adopting a kid when you have a bad attitude is still better than letting that kid die of a treatable disease. As to your embryos, I think it's so awesome that you guys are going to use them all. I wish everyone would. I also like the idea of embryonic adoption, although I completely understand why you guys did not go for that. But hey, if you end up with a huge family and you're done with all your embryos, what's one more kid? ;o)
Absolutely. The life expectancy for the HIV positive kids at "our" orphanage in El Salvador is 25 years old. 25. When here, if you get the medications, and have access to good healthcare, etc., you could live as long as anyone else.
I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-29 01:36 am (UTC)Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-29 01:56 am (UTC)(I commonly defend Catholics, and the modern Catholic Church, so Bethany has learned to add a disclaimer. ;)
Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-29 03:20 am (UTC)Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-29 03:41 am (UTC)(I remember being about eight years old and being crushed when I realized I couldn't be a Nun as a Protestant. That was a sad, sad day in my life. =D ... I still sometimes think it might be nice to be a Nun. Far less complicated.)
Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-30 12:16 am (UTC)Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-30 01:19 pm (UTC)Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-30 02:54 am (UTC)Re: I do have a question...
Date: 2009-08-29 03:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-29 05:11 am (UTC)No, I didn't forget you work at your church. :oP
I know I explained this before, but several of my longtime friends have adopted internationally; one of them is a pastor in Oregon who recently went to China to pick up their daughter. So you know in my case you're preaching to the choir on this one. The only other friends I know have adopted also have Asian children; I don't think I know anyone else who's adopted from Ethiopia.
I've also pretty much known your reasons for wanting to adopt for close to as long as I've had you friended. As I've said before, choosing to adopt a child is the most effective way of promoting a pro-life message.
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Date: 2009-08-30 02:57 am (UTC)I agree with all the rest you said. Thanks for your support, Theresa! =o)
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Date: 2009-08-30 03:05 am (UTC)LOL. True. As I said to someone else, I don't think the people who may donate expect us to give up every non-necessity in our lives (although we have given up plenty). That said, I think the difference between asking for money for an adoption and having a biological kid is that typically insurance covers everything for giving birth, so you don't need to raise money. If there were some sort of insurance that would pay for an adoption - well, we wouldn't need to ask for help, now, would we.
OK, I know not everyone is meant to be married, but it still surprises me that you Roueche boys (and Rebecca) aren't taken yet. You guys are all so great and will be fantastic spouses one day. I guess it's probably related to all those years where you were in a church with absolutely zero prospects. Anyway, that's cool that you feel the same way. But most people seem to want to have at least one kid biologically, and I can't blame them for that. We've talked about it - mostly just because we're curious what our genes combined would look like, LOL - but so far, we're set on only adopting.
Thanks for the encouragement and support, Jonathan! It means a lot to have our friends backing us. =o)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 04:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-30 12:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-30 03:11 am (UTC)Girl, me too! Been there, done that. But we are not at a point in our lives where we have to do that, and honestly I don't think the people who would give to our adoption fund expect us to give up every non-necessity in our lives. I mean, who says to a college kid raising support for a mission trip, "I will only donate to your cause if you promise never to eat out, get rid of your texting plan, and cancel your cable TV." No one says that because it's just not a requirement that you get rid of all the things you enjoy that cost a little money in order for people to give to you.
But still, I don't mind the question because hey, it's an honest question.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-30 01:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-30 03:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-30 05:32 pm (UTC)By the way, did you get the email I sent you? With the ultrasound pictures?
no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 04:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 02:10 am (UTC)My parents didn't have me until they were in their late 30s and the midget was born when my mom was 42, so for me having a baby/adopting when I'm 30 doesnt sound old but that's because of my family. My personal goal is to start looking into adopting when I'm 30, hoping that by that point I'll be mature enough, stable financially enough, etc. Also, I think that if I do end up getting married, it may be by then, but only God knows!
no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 04:16 pm (UTC)I didn't mean to imply that there's something wrong with having kids in your 30s - or even your 40s. These days that's almost more common than having kids in your 20s. It's just since we got married young we don't want to be celebrating our 10-year anniversary before we even have a kid. I have an aunt though who didn't get married till her 40s and then had a kid when she was like 45. And my in-laws had my youngest SIL when my MIL was just a bit younger than 40 too. It can be done - it's just not what we want to do.
And for the record, I think a child adopted by a single parent is a heck of a lot better than a child not being adopted. Having one parent and a loving home is vastly superior than having no parents and no human to love you.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 03:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-31 04:16 pm (UTC)